Comment from timr
Time: September 23, 2007, 12:57 pm

LC, I just finished reading some comments that Rudy made within the last couple of days-don’t have a link for this-he said that 1) we should bomb Iran, and at least set them back 5 to 10 years, and the real nut job quote- Israel should be in NATO(just how this would happen ,considering the stand that europe-remember europe, where most of NATO’s members are-he does not explain- has taken on Israel) so that if anybody(terrorist groups being tied of course to Iran) attacks Israel, the entire weight of NATO would “crush them” meaning Iran. The more things that spill from Rudy’s mouth, the more terrified I get that this nut job could actually be the repig candidate. On the other hand, he is giving the dems some real money qoutes. I agree with you about Sen. Clinton, she is very smart, and I think that as time goes on she will wear better with most of the country. Remember what the repigs said when she was running for senator from NY? Remember them saying that they wanted her running so that they could bury her? Remember that Rudy dropped out of that race? Didn’t he drop out claiming some kind of medical problem?

Comment from Nosebetter
Time: September 23, 2007, 7:56 pm

Leftcoast:

A whole month’s salary? Can I use your healthcare, too?

I’m staying pretty consistent in my belief that Hillary is electable. The Democrats should worry more about Obama and Edwards in a mudslinging match. They could get new stuff, but with Hilla it’s all old news. I think Obama and Edwards are effective in keeping her pulled to the left more than she might otherwise be. However, she is committing to the issues and I think the country will benefit.

I think her health care plan is a good starting point. She has shown a willingness to be negotiable with it. Even as it stands, Hillarycare is far better than no care which is what I have now. I have been without health insurance and I have been with health insurance. I much prefer being with it.

I’m glad to see that she is finally coming around on the Global Trade issue. There has been a constant refusal to allow any national debate on this issue. The people in favor of free trade have been allowed to define both sides of the issue. The first road block is to define the issue…what is free trade? Did you see Brad Pitt in “Troy”? The Greeks went in, stole all valuables, killed all the men, and helped themselves to the women. Now thats what I call free trade. I’m not advocating this is how it should be done, the point is that when we start adding conditions (such as murder or stealing not being acceptable) that regulate how we conduct ourselves, we no longer have free trade.

The people who negotiate trade for our country have consistently negotiated for the rich at the expense of the working class…but I digress. Let’s just say I am happy to see a change (or at least a positive commitment) in Hillary’s stance on trade. I think it will go over well with the American people.

Comment from Leftcoast
Time: September 23, 2007, 9:17 pm

Nose, there you go again, writing some really cogent stuff when most of us here thought you were KD’s distant cousin…

Comment from timr
Time: September 25, 2007, 11:03 am

nose, we have had no free trade since NAFTA, which the multi’s supported, and which has done more to drive down wages than anything else this countries history. BTW, GM is on a national strike, not for more money or for health care, but for some job security. Now of course it is true that any company can move any of their factories to any other country, it is their right to want to make more $$$. My question, and I have been asking it for the last 20 years, is this, if a worker can’t afford to buy the products that are being made, what does it matter if the company moves its factory to a country that pays the workers very little money. Our economy depends on people buying just about everything in sight, what happens when the factories have all moved or keep telling the workers that they have to make less money or the factory will move? I have seen it happen many times over the years, a plant leaves the US, and then within 10 or so years, the company goes bankrupt, because its customer base can no longer afford to buy its product due to downward pressure on wages. Don’t fool yourself, there are a lot of factories(auto parts being a good one) who in the US pay their workers minimum wage, or at most a buck or 2 over minimum, and expect their workers to get things like food stamps and health care from the state.(wal mart does this also) The wage disparity continues to grow, and those with high wages continue to move into gated housing areas, lets keep the working poor far far away. That is why I think that the next civil war will be between the working poor(having to work 2 or 3 jobs just to put food on the table) and the rich who exploit them. All it will take will be 1 or 2 charismatic figures to rouse them(they are after all the majority in this country) and we will have a war just like the french revolution. The unrest in the underclass is rising more every year, I think it will not take much for the rage to spill over. BTW, did you know that there are people who use slave or indentured servitude(aided and abetted by the repigs in congress-note american Samoa) within the US, or that many of the products sold in the US are made by slave labor? Or that our fruit and veggies are picked by people who make less than $2 an hour in most places?-I have a cousin who is a farmer, he pays $5 an hour to his pickers and has decent housing, he has the same people come back year after year, and has many more wanting to work for him. I have also seen pickers getting less than $1 an hour, and having to pay for the hovels that the farmer has for living quarters. Factoid: about 30% of HS students, age 16 or so, in the US drop out each year.

Comment from Nosebetter
Time: September 25, 2007, 12:53 pm

Tim:
Although we may see some rioting, I think the change will and should come through the election process. Since big money has proven the ability to buy two parties at once, the country may get a third party. I don’t think they can buy three parties at once.

“Now of course it is true that any company can move any of their factoris to any other country…” I don’t think this is currently the situation. Otherwise, Potus wouldn’t be pushing for fast track negotiations. At any rate, business shouldn’t be given free reign to do what it wishes. That’s how we got in this sub prime situation. It’s one thing when a mom and pop operation closes or moves. It is totally another when several multi-billion dollar deals are happening simultaneously; these can destabilize the entire economy and cause enormous foreign policy nightmares for the whole country.